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Post by dan on Mar 10, 2011 13:24:13 GMT
"Please note: The weed on knotsford is nothing compared to the venues in the south of england that 'produce' these fish. There isn't a weed problem, the problem is that some anglers are so dumb they cannot see that casting over dense weed is not a clever thing to do because you then have the problem of retrieving a hooked fish through it!"
Absolutely spot on Tim! one of the best things I've read on here for a long time.
I also agree with the point raised about temperature. I spent most of my life, until the last 5 years, fishing in the south and it is far warmer down there, and most waters are just as weedy, if not weedier
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Post by endpegger on Mar 10, 2011 16:50:07 GMT
you are right about the crays tim i have been avoiding them for years lol but that is more the big natural waters the newer style commercial lakes are generally cray and chat free .the fact is the carp are fed a diet oh high protien feed such as boilies pellets etc .the fact they grow so fast is mainly due to this and also they have been bread selectivley almost hybridsed so they gain weight more quickly and it is this that puts the weight although i do agree that the temperature is part of it. look for instance at the ebro i river i have fished for thirty years and that has as much heat as any river lake in france .the carp used to be so plentiful it was a proper baggin river catchin hundreds of pounds of carp but they only went 6 to 10 pounds but brilliant sport . then along came the cats and the carp were thinned a litttle and from tortosa upwards the sport dwindled but catfish became the thing to catch then they started catching the cats on big halibut pellets tipped in by the sackful and still are the result was the weight of the carp and the cats rocketed carp to over 50lb cats to over 200lb and it aint got no hotter so for me its a combination . the river is also now full of big roach and i mean loads
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Post by rickyg on Mar 10, 2011 19:03:48 GMT
you are right timr, I know little of fishery management, but have observed knotfords changes over the last 20 years, and when it was a big roach venue it was weed free ish.If you caught a roach, they were generally 1lb+.When it was coloured using manure fish of all sizes appeared.Fish you never caught when it was clear.Maybe using the manure was the begining of the end of the roach.weed has its advantages , but it can also de-oxygenate a lake.also if weed is so important on gravel pits for food,fry survival,breeding etc.why was my local gravel pit stuffed with not stunted roach, but fish in all year classes up to nearly 2lb, when there was barely a strand of weed in its 20 acres,roundhay parks waterloo lake?
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timr
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Post by timr on Mar 10, 2011 19:54:53 GMT
This often happens with 'first generation' fish ricky as a water becomes naturally enriched, or as with knotsford when the enrichment is encouraged/manipulated/accellerated. Had the treatment been continued and the water had remained coloured however, the number of successfull spawnings would probably have ensured the stock level would have eventually exceeded/reached the lbs per acre ratio that the water could 'support' and the size of all the lakes inhabitants would diminish. ie the roach would no longer have the required food supply to grow beyond a few ounces.
Unfortunately this is usually the way with big roach and they would seem to be the result of freak circumstances, usually resulting in a shortlived presence. A boost in certain species (but particularly roach and perch) can 'apparently' also be a cyclical thing often created as a consequence of natural cycles in plant growth but in my experience it is more often the consequence of freak/unusual changes such as a change in ph (caused by run off from farmland) or extreme environmental/weather factors...
The very large roach that were once prolific in winterset Res would seem to be the result of an exceptionally wet year, causing long periods of colour and protecting a yearclass of baby roach from predation. Couple this with a very low level of competition for food and you have a recipe for some very big roach.. This could reoccur at any time on both Wintersett or knotford (since both have relatively low stock densities) so it might just be a case of waiting. If it does happen make the most of it because the chances are it won't last long.
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Post by knowbody on Mar 11, 2011 23:36:55 GMT
Now this is a thread Timr, Why so against more larger carp? (I'm not talking hundreds here) I think a few new sexually mature fish would liven up the bloodlines if and when they manage to spawn. I'm guessing the carp in there are from old stock? If so there genetics are probably as old as "endpeckers" and new virelent fish in the mix may get some young blood comeing through? (weed permitting) Not even carp live forever. Dan, Get a grip man!
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timr
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Post by timr on Mar 12, 2011 0:03:57 GMT
Trouble is 'knowbody' it never ends with just a few more. It is only a matter of time before the struggling novice carp angler decides the stock is not nearly high enough for him and lobbies for a few more and so on, until the water is b*****d.
Unfortunately the 'comitee men' and 'general membership' alike, strike me as the old fasioned types with typically northern, old fashioned and badly informed ideas. Rip out the weed, stock to saturation with anything that swims, a hatred of boilies, night fishing and anything else that might be considered modern. (Im sorry if that is innacurate but it is the impression I get)
You said it yourself. "it isn't that type of water". I suppose it depends upon what you want. If you want a soulless easy runs water then there are dozens about already. If you want to catch a home grown Yorkshire forty or a double figure Yorkshire tench then the way to go is to leave well alone and give em chance to grow. I'll repeat what I said earlier about the reknown big fish venues down south. Compare them with knotford in its pre blue state and there wasn't a gread deal of difference. Restocking would almost certainly change that.
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timr
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Post by timr on Mar 12, 2011 0:07:32 GMT
Knowbody any chance of revealing yourself, if only by pm.
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Post by gcb on Mar 12, 2011 21:57:49 GMT
What a load of tosh timr. You say that northerners have typically old fashioned and ill informed ideas. Not sure you will endear yourself to many on this forum with that attitude. Why do you think your ideas are better than anyone elses anyway? Some of us can catch fish in the daytime without boilies!
We northerners can also spell it's committee not comitee it's inaccurate not innacurate it's renowned not reknown
Otherwise it's warmer down south on average and so fish grow larger. Don't think the mighty knowbody will bother to reply to you.
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Post by dan on Mar 12, 2011 22:05:20 GMT
'knowbody, get a grip of what? Touch a nerve did I?!
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Post by dan on Mar 12, 2011 22:08:10 GMT
Actually pal, don't answer that, i'm sick of your cheap digs at peoples comments
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timr
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Post by timr on Mar 12, 2011 22:20:12 GMT
Some of us can catch fish in the daytime without boilies! Sort of proves my point! Actually GCB I rather think I've proven myself when it comes to catching in the daytime and without boilies. The trouble is I've got a sh*t job with long hours that only enables me to go fishing after work like a lot of other members.
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timr
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Post by timr on Mar 12, 2011 22:38:13 GMT
JCP there aint no argument. I've witnessed the way some of these big fish waters are managed. Take the Bawburgh complex in Norwich. Not a million miles further south than Leeds but it has produced loads of tench over 10lb and bream over 17 (or is it 18lb) This complex doesn't strike me as any richer than knotsford but it is managed sympathetically and sensitively. Chris Turnbull who manages the place deliberately keeps the stock density well below what the individual lakes can support so that the fish will grow to their optimum size.
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Post by gcb on Mar 12, 2011 22:41:29 GMT
You don't have to prove anything to anybody timr least of all yourself. We fish to enjoy ourselves don't we? If you have got a rubbish job get out of it! Anything is possible if you put the effort in and want it bad enough. geoff
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timr
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Post by timr on Mar 12, 2011 23:54:01 GMT
I can't understand why 'knowbody' won't reveal himself or why he is so disliked upon this forum. I've read through a lot of his posts and aside from a bit of sarcasm I can't see anything wrong If it is perhaps because he has different, perhaps challenging opinions; then I personally welcome his input and I look forward to being unpopular myself!
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Post by phil on Mar 13, 2011 21:34:06 GMT
Trouble is 'knowbody' it never ends with just a few more. It is only a matter of time before the struggling novice carp angler decides the stock is not nearly high enough for him and lobbies for a few more and so on, until the water is b*****d. Unfortunately the 'comitee men' and 'general membership' alike, strike me as the old fasioned types with typically northern, old fashioned and badly informed ideas. Rip out the weed, stock to saturation with anything that swims, a hatred of boilies, night fishing and anything else that might be considered modern. (Im sorry if that is innacurate but it is the impression I get) You said it yourself. "it isn't that type of water". I suppose it depends upon what you want. If you want a soulless easy runs water then there are dozens about already. If you want to catch a home grown Yorkshire forty or a double figure Yorkshire tench then the way to go is to leave well alone and give em chance to grow. I'll repeat what I said earlier about the reknown big fish venues down south. Compare them with knotford in its pre blue state and there wasn't a gread deal of difference. Restocking would almost certainly change that. "Home grown Yorkshire forty!" Thats an old fashioned attitude if ever there was one! What Knotford needs is a few of them fast growing simmo's that get to 30+ in 10 years (then you'll know what your 3.75 TC rods were made for). Instead of some old dinosaur with no bottom lip that gives up after 2minutes because its been in the lake for as many years as it weighs in lb's! Poor old things must of seen the bank half a dozen times a year for the last 30 odd years.. If you ask me, them kinds of fish should be put in nature reserves to live out there days in peace...
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