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Post by kpkh on Aug 8, 2015 9:22:55 GMT
I agree about controlling the birds though, that Is something we can do and I believe is something that's starting to happen.
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quint
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Post by quint on Aug 8, 2015 9:55:46 GMT
"Personally I think if Otters can not be controlled, then you need to start putting more fish in, a lot more stocking needs to be going on, while doing this you need to control the cormorants." I disagree with this idea quint, the only thing we can do as anglers is let nature balance itself out! We can't controll otters and never ever will be able to. Stocking more fish is just like throwing more bait into the pen for them to eat creating a false habitat. Yes a lot of rivers are absolutely on there arse but some are also doing ok! Things go in cycles, maybe the barbels had its turn and some other fish will beggin to do well. I'll tell you what the natural balance is, a hell of a lot less fish in the rivers due to keeping one large rat happy, those that can afford to fence their lakes will be ok. It's not just Barbel, if they are being eaten you can be absolutely sure the Chub, Pike, Bream and Roach are all being hammered aswell, it's just Barbel are a very popular fish and a lot of anglers are fishing for them, so are noticing the decline. Pike are an ambush predator, so spend a lot of the day stationary, perfect prey for Otters.
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Post by patterdalewilson on Aug 8, 2015 10:04:50 GMT
We have them now and we have to get on with it , whatever the damage they do or do not do to our beloved rivers , because no one is going to reduce their numbers end of. The big issue for me is why did they get reintroduced in the first place ?. When all the fish have gone they will eat the birds and other smaller creatures then maybe the rspb may start a campaign to have them culled.
#worryingtimes.
Mick.
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Post by Springer on Aug 8, 2015 12:54:56 GMT
We can control anything gentlemen , man can level mountains. culling a few otters isn't hard the hard bit is getting the liberal arsoles that have allowed the free for all on our fish stocks to repeal the laws protecting the otter and let us have the same rights as anyone protecting livestock . Not all otters have to die just the ones that cause carnage on fisheries while all we can do is put fences round everything and just hope ! . Otters , cormorants there's no difference we should be allowed to defend our fish any way we see fit including getting rid if that's what is needed .
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quint
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Post by quint on Aug 8, 2015 13:04:39 GMT
20 pairs of Otters released onto the Derwent though, that is criminal, and the E.A sanctioned this?
From everything I've read on the subject, if you don't have an Otter problem hang on a bit, it's coming.
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Post by stevo53 on Aug 8, 2015 19:58:51 GMT
20 pairs of Otters released onto the Derwent though, that is criminal, and the E.A sanctioned this? From everything I've read on the subject, if you don't have an Otter problem hang on a bit, it's coming. Not sure the EA would need to sanction It!! Natural England Is likely to have much more influence than the E.A and they have big plans for the Derwent catchment . Including the removal of structures from the river Ie weirs. Although there recent trials at Kirkham did throw up quite a few problems, not to say they have given up on the idea though.
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Post by keepitreal on Aug 8, 2015 22:00:57 GMT
Some of you paint a very grim picture!
I'm here on the Nidd (not a Leeds stretch) quite happy with 2 chub and 2 barbel thus far, not today but seen Otters down here regularly.
I believe we have a balance here, possibly not as many fish as pre otter, but plenty enough to keep me happy.
I fail to see how the Otter being related to the rat makes any difference to the situation. Rats can live with many other rats, otters cannot and will not with others of there own kind.
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Post by Eddie on Aug 8, 2015 22:20:27 GMT
I don't think Yorkshire rivers are the most productive and they have their problems. The ea say 70% of rivers are in decline, so how the hell does introducing otters make sense! Utter stupidity. Whenever man starts messing with nature it usually ends badly!
Eddie
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Post by keepitreal on Aug 9, 2015 0:49:00 GMT
Of the traditional Yorkshire barbel rivers I would say they are all relatively productive bar the upper Ure and the Derwent as a whole.
The Wharfe has had issues in recent years, but there seems to be decent reports of small barbel (stocked recently?) and the odd good un off the middle river this season, with plenty coming off the tidal.
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Post by grayson on Aug 9, 2015 5:59:52 GMT
Usual hysteria; the number of predators depends on prey availability. Just like pike or foxes, lots of food means a spike in predator numbers . If you overstock lakes with silly F1s or have huge numbers of released pheasants you get more otters and foxes. Wonder if the same anglers who have themselves illegally stocked catfish etc also moan about otters?
I have said on here before and I will repeat it now- on the rivers I fish where I have access to accurate records (mainly trout and grayling )going back decades there has been no difference at all in catches since otters returned.That is fact and verifiable from those records.Most of the otter hysteria is anecdote and rumour - or so I have found when I have challenged some of the arrant nonsense I have been told.But for some reason anglers love scare stories - first it was pike , then zander, poles , cormorants and now our furry friend .
I suspect many of those moaning about otters don't even fish rivers judging by how few people I encounter - and most of them are within a short walk of their cars.
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quint
Junior Member
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Post by quint on Aug 9, 2015 8:36:44 GMT
Grayson, we are only at the beginning, and already there are several rivers in this country that have declined due to Otter predation, this is a first, they are now allowed to breed and breed until they reach a point of saturation.
Common sense tells you where this is going, in the past they were hunted for good reason.
They are not even an endangered species anymore, they no longer warrant the protection under law, hopefully one day they will be moved off the list and put into the same catergory as Foxes, but by then it will be too late for the fish stocks.
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Post by Eddie on Aug 9, 2015 9:04:12 GMT
Our rivers may well be capable of sustaining otters, but that may well mean that the fish stock fundamentally changes, why should anglers have to sacrifice their specimen barbel and chub to keep the otter lovers happy. 20lb barbel killed, oh that's right a another will take it's place in a couple of seasons, like hell it will, double figure fish take a long time to mature and being wildlife themselves need protection from animals that were doing fine without being put into unsuitable environments all over the country.
Eddie.
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Post by patterdalewilson on Aug 9, 2015 9:46:49 GMT
Well put Eddie , bang on topic. Biggest barbel in the uk ottered.
If these creatures had naturaly re populated themselves the situation would be easier to stomach , but to think somebody sanctioned this annoys me greatly.
We may be catching barbel and chub but how much better might the fishing have been had the reintroduction have been. The good catches we are enjoying now could be down to the fact that we are all better anglers than we were in the past. With better and more bait going in and improved tackle and line , along with improved tactics and knowledge.
Mick.
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Post by kpkh on Aug 9, 2015 10:22:04 GMT
Around 6 years ago I started fishing solely for barbel, because the wharfe was closest to me and I knew it best I decided to concentrate on there. Unfortunately around the same time the river had its major problems and was in rapid decline! I didn't see an otter on the wharfe for the first few seasons but I'm sure they were around. My catch rate was steady, if I got one everytime I went I was doing well but there were plenty of blanks! Other anglers I talked to (the very few I bumped into, most had left for other rivers) were having similar results and saying how hard it had become, asif the fish had simply disappeared. The point I'm getting at is that this river was knackered when I started to see otters. Over the past 3 or 4 seasons it's improved. Maybe it's found a balance quicker because of the state it was in. I still see otters on most outings! The nidd also seems to be doing ok, this was were I saw my first otter. I've been a couple of times this year and the amount of silver fish present is great! Seems to be some good chub n barbel around too. Can't say much for other rivers as I don't fish em but not all doom n gloom
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quint
Junior Member
Posts: 99
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Post by quint on Aug 9, 2015 11:56:01 GMT
What annoys me most about Otters is the amount of flesh they eat from the fish they catch, they tend to just eat certain parts they prefer and leave the rest, such a wasteful predator.
Otters have a place ofcourse they do, but they have no natural predator to keep them in check, you should not be seeing them so regularly, they are elusive by nature, they should be a rare sight, the fact we all see them quite frequently tells you there are too many.
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