Which type of venue do you prefer?

[Dr Barbus]

The current Leeds ASA position on fishing into the dark is quite frustrating on the rivers especially during the Autumn and Winter months. The fish I seek on the rivers tend to feed more after sunset than during the day hours. Similarly when considering an after work fishing session, I have to discount the Leeds stretches during winter.

Without a night ticket I can fish Hull waters until 10pm all year round.
Without a night ticket I can fish YorkDAA waters as the rules allow including deciding on my own time to pack up where night fishing is allowed.
Nottingham Angling Association rules are also quite similar on venues like the Trent.
The biggest club I belong to Prince Albert Angling Society explicitly state where night fishing is not allowed because as a general rule
their waters (all 300) allow night fishing.
On all these clubs waters good behaviour and no litter is standard.
Looking at the various club websites around the country, most member healthy clubs allow fishing into the dark stating 10, 10:30 or 11pm finish.

RobP's response above outlines a good case for Leeds ASA allowing, where riperian owners allow, fishing until 10:30pm. This would be a boon on many of the rivers where matches are held in the day until 4 or 4:30pm and help enormously with autumn and winter fishing for many species to be found in the rivers.
The biggest effect such a rule change would have is in the Autumn and Winter. And is is exceedingly rare to find anyone other than responsible anglers out on the rivers at such times.
In the first instance, Rob, Dave, Richard, myself and others are not asking for all night fishing, but a consideration of the clubs rule that
requires us to stop fishing at what, at this time of the year, is late afternoon and in all likilihood the best time to be fishing.
A good instance of this is the Leeds ASA Topcliffe and asenby stretches, with no fishing after sunset while the stretches inbetween, leased to the Barbel Society Syndicate, allow 24 hour fishing access. And there is no shortage of people making full use of that.

I realise that Leeds ASA has an extensive match fishing fraternity with no interest in night fishing, but many other clubs and associations, with a similarly strong match section, realise that they can attract many non-match fishing members by allowing their members lattitude to fish beyond a 5pm sunset. Where there is a choice and an angler needs to prioritise where they place their membership money, it is blindingly obvious where that money goes if they have to make that choice.

[stanfish]

hi jason,in a lot of places the water we rent is not from the farmers, it is from land agents who lease the waters for the owners, the farmers in these places do not get any benifits from the anglers and use any excuse to stop us using the water, people walking around after dark is one of the things they object to most strongly for security reasons,even in places where the farmer owns the water they dont want people walking through thier land in the dark, when there is a rule to the effect anyone there after dark can only be up to no good, thats the way it has been done for years, it dosent mean it cannot be changed, but you can see thier point, if someone gets robbed or rustled , or burgled who do you think would get the blame?.stan

[stanfish]

hi rob n Dr barbus, i have read with interest your comments and you are of couse quite right, my brief as president as allways been the maximisation of our waters,assets, to the full. with this in mind when i meet the agents, owners of our rented fisheries this along with better accsess will be the top of my agenda, rules will have to be changed in the yearbook,this is done at a a,g,m, or can be done when standing orders are susspended, but someone has to put forward rule changes and then recive a majority vote , after a debait on the subject,started by the proposer, he is then allowed the finalwords summing up. this is our democrosy, you are all welcombe to the a,g,m, and of course it is better to have the officials of the socity propose the motion or be favorable to it at least,and you know that i am in favor of night fishing in certain places. so have a think and lets talk about it , but dont ask for the impossable.stan..

[kevrich]

I am personally against a night fishing permit for Rivers, it does nothing to solve the problem of having the opportunity to spend more time on the bank.

At the moment the Leeds rules require its members to be in the main weekend anglers, this is particularly frustrating when trying to target the rivers at their best.

I myself would be unwilling to pay extra for a night permit, when all that is required is a set finish time, which at the moment is local lighting up time, when is that?

Some anglers that I know and have the greatest respect for, don’t seem to know???

When Leeds took over at Wintersett, a few anglers that used to fish it, fished a couple of hours into darkness but not overnight, the night fishing permit there put a stop to that and put angler against angler, actually arguing over what is the correct finish time for day anglers and while this all goes on lads from the village still fishing Botany Lake overnight on a day ticket, if they could be bothered to buy one! One Carp angler with a night permit actually told me to carry on fishing into dark, saying he thought it unfair! This was also the view of a past voluntary bailiff at that water!

I have been a member of the Leeds club for 30+ years on and off and have only had my book checked at the above venue and that was when you first took it over, so how is the present finish time policed on the rivers, quite obviously it isn’t.

If you do go down the road of having night permits it will still be a must to have a set finish time for anglers without the permits, or once again you will set angler against angler.

Yours in hope Kev

[robp]

See where you are coming from Kev.

The majority seem to have a preference for a set finish time anyway, so there seems little justification for charging to allow us to fish to a reasonable time. A strict zero tolerance policy (leading to membership being revoked) for anyone staying later, should be enough of a deterrent.

Rob

[Dr barbus]

So as a way forward if those of us at YFN come up with a proposal for changing the rules on page 54 of the 2006 yearbook (my 2007 has yet to arrive) to something like:

Except where stated otherwise for the water, fishing is to be allowed from one half hour before sunrise to 10:30pm. Fishing outside of these times is confined to those holding night permits on waters where night fishing is allowed.
Night fishing waters are: Wintersett Complex, Howe Lake, Catterick and the Knotford Fishery.

Would this read correctly for something to brought up at the AGM?
The one half hour before sunrise is the legal definition of the end of lighting up time.

Of course this list of night fishing waters could be extended but that is another issue.

[CharleyFarly]

This is proving to be a heated debate. I can understand how farmers feel about people roaming their property at all hours. It is all too easy for someone bent on stealing very expensive machines to wander round with a rod claiming to be an angler. They claim to have a load of excess tarmac/ be scrap collectors/looking for mushrooms etc when the farmer appears, and being an angler just adds to the list. As Robp says, the majority of anglers are sensible but, as I said earlier, they are being lumped together with the mindless minority. This is brought home on almost every water with easy access by the sheer volume of litter -eg loads of carrier bags full of empty lager cans at Cold Hiendley. It is only a few and in some cases maybe not LDASA members but, for landowners, stopping anglers will stop the problem.
Sunrise on summer mornings is 4am, are we suggesting a 3-30am start? - one large club lost a superb barbel stretch because the members were turning up at 5am making a racket as they drove through the farm. I would have thought that 7/7-30am would have been more than early enough.
In the evening at 10-30pm it could still be quite light for those early season barbel.
Remoteness from habitation is also a factor as in the Barbel Society's stretch at Asenby (as are their subs in case you think Leed's £40 is a lot for night fishing!!).
It is not quite as cut and dried as is being suggested and I think each venue needs looking at separately.
The other question is, 'Who will police it?' This is another problem which I think needs to be looked at urgently as I feel there are many fishing LDASA waters who are not members yet it is LDASA who are being blamed for their misdemeanors.

On a separate note - which is Botany Lake?

[Dr barbus]

I left the start time unchanged. As the rule stands it specifies lighting up time as the limits of fishing time. This is half hour after sunset to half hour before sunrise. Specific stretches have specific over-rides, eg Helperby states no access to the water before 7am.
I think a general rule which exceptions as is currently the case is the better option.

[kevrich]

In total agreement with DrBarbus on this,

In the main the anglers that would benefit from this are amongst the most sensible and conscientious members of the angling fraternity, there continued membership and possible increase in membership from like minded anglers would be of great benefit to a forward thinking angling club.

Kev

charley, Botany lake is the small like adjacent to Wintersett Res on the left of the road coming from Crofton.

[robp]

OK, lets look at these issues one by one:

CharleyFarly said:

This is proving to be a heated debate.

Don't see this at all my friend, just a sensible and open discussion about issues that affect a good proportion of members.

I can understand how farmers feel about people roaming their property at all hours. It is all too easy for someone bent on stealing very expensive machines to wander round with a rod claiming to be an angler. They claim to have a load of excess tarmac/ be scrap collectors/looking for mushrooms etc when the farmer appears, and being an angler just adds to the list.

This is just as relevant during daylight as darkness and is very difficult to deal with when many stretches of riverbank are public rights of way. The association can, however, clearly indicate that no approach should be made to landowners property as a condition of membership.

As Robp says, the majority of anglers are sensible but, as I said earlier, they are being lumped together with the mindless minority. This is brought home on almost every water with easy access by the sheer volume of litter -eg loads of carrier bags full of empty lager cans at Cold Hiendley. It is only a few and in some cases maybe not LDASA members but, for landowners, stopping anglers will stop the problem.

It's a very sad indication of the times we live in when the minority dictate that the majority have to be faced with restrictions. But the issue that easy access waters face problems is not really relevant to this debate. It's already been stated that York waters are amongst the tidiest in the region, yet they are one of the few that allow extended access to waters. Furthermore, very few of the river stretches offer easy access and suffer far less with the litter problem you mention than stillwaters. I'd also suggest that those that are irresponsible enough to drink a quantity of alcohol whilst fishing will do so whatever time of day it is.

Sunrise on summer mornings is 4am, are we suggesting a 3-30am start? - one large club lost a superb barbel stretch because the members were turning up at 5am making a racket as they drove through the farm. I would have thought that 7/7-30am would have been more than early enough.

Personally, I'm just as happy to adopt a fixed start time, as I am with a fixed finish time and I would agree that 3:30pm is unfair where access is through property.

In the evening at 10-30pm it could still be quite light for those early season barbel.

I think most would be happy to sacrifice half an hour for a few weeks, when it would mean we could make fuller use of our waters from August through to March. Indeed, I'd suggest this indicates that those of us who would like to see extended hours are more than sympathetic to those who reside in close proximity to access points.

Remoteness from habitation is also a factor as in the Barbel Society's stretch at Asenby (as are their subs in case you think Leed's £40 is a lot for night fishing!!).

£30 for a permit to fish Asenby, regardless of the time of day you choose to fish, as for remoteness, see below.

It is not quite as cut and dried as is being suggested and I think each venue needs looking at separately.
The other question is, 'Who will police it?' This is another problem which I think needs to be looked at urgently as I feel there are many fishing LDASA waters who are not members yet it is LDASA who are being blamed for their misdemeanors.

Again, I'd suggest policing is an issue regardless of the time of day people are fishing.

Nobody has suggested that every water should be open to extended access. I'm sure everyone would accept that some waters would be unsuitable, or quite simply, an agreement could not be reached. It would be simple enough to indicate which waters are available for extended fishing hours in both the yearbook and on the website. Ignoring this would not be an excuse and anybody "overlooking" this would be open to disciplinary action.

As Kev has stated.......

kevrich said:

...........In the main the anglers that would benefit from this are amongst the most sensible and conscientious members of the angling fraternity, there continued membership and possible increase in membership from like minded anglers would be of great benefit to a forward thinking angling club.

I am absolutely certain that this proposal would see a significant increase in membership for the association. If you ever venture down to the River Trent a very high proportion of anglers travel from Yorkshire for legal night fishing, especially at this time of year. I'm also certain many anglers take up York membership primarily for the extended hours on offer. Even the extra hour that Bradford No1 offer is enough to make many choose that club over Leeds.

Regards

Rob

[robinbowes]

Hi,

I'd like to add my support for extending evening access to river venues.

Personally, I'd prefer 24-hour access where possible, as allowed at some York waters (I'm a member of both clubs), but something like 22:30 (or midnight??) would be a compromise.

It's particularly frustrating at this time of year to only be able to fish at weekends, and then only until approx. 17:00

Please consider changing the "No Night fishing" policy, where possible.

R.