Should LDASA have more commercial style fisheries

[Dr barbus]

If the Association is going to molest a natural lake and turn it into a Pellet Puddle, could they at least use expert advice (eg Bruno Broughton ) before embarking on this.
The carp will cost and you run the risk of wrecking existing and new fish stocks.
I am not in favour of yet another cap-pellet lake as there are plenty of these sort of lakes around York/Tadcaster/Leeds and I think the club will not gain in competing against the pure commercial carp lakes.
As the the introduced stock, carp have a tendency to grow and these sorts of fisheries take some management with removal of larger carp and their replacement, assuming that they don't breed successfully. Left to themselves the fishery will eventually end up as another carp lake. You have "commercial" type carp pond for three four years but with the year-around bait entering the lake those little carp will pack on the weight. Is that what you intend? Is that not what happened with some of the existing lakes at Catterick?

Why not go for improving one of the lakes with extra silver fish and Orfe and make something very different that holds the attractions of the commercial fishery without the carp. IE consistent fishing around the lake and throughout the year. A bit more imagination is called for.

[Craig Gregory]

I have just voted no. In my opinion leeds angling should leave the fisheries as they are, where the sport can be fun but sometimes a challange which makes catching that more rewarding. If you are after an easy catch then you should head for places such as Wooldands where you could put your hand in and pull a fish out.

fishing is ment to be a challange thats what makes it the sport it is. If leeds make waters commercial then wheres the fun for the fisherman when they will be catching all day long. Some people may think this is good but i have done it and i found it boring catching small carp one after another. I would rather fish hard and catch a big 20+ carp.

Cheers Craig Greg

[robp]

I'm struggling to get to grips with the idea that carp colour the water and so improve the fishing? Yes, stocking carp is likely to increase the turbidity of the water, but at the expense of the species already present. The carp will dominate the water and yet another water that holds (mainly) indigenous species will have sadly vanished.

Speak to a reputable consultant as Dr Barbus suggests and I'm certain other options would present themselves in terms of improving the fishing, whilst helping to preserve a water that promotes fishing for our native species.

One final point with regard to the commercial type fishery: Whilst I would accept that a good number of anglers fish them for the quantity of fish they might catch, is it not also the case that many fish them because they can buy a bacon butty, some bait and have toilet facilities? For many, these things go hand in hand when choosing a venue and I'd wager that the costs involved would quite probably far exceed any increase in revenue from additional yearbook sales. Remember Sandwath is in an area that has a huge number of commercial style fisheries within a short distance, unlike Catterick, which the club itself conceeds draws many of its visitors from Teeside and Durham (where commercials are far less prevalent).

Rob

[frim]

Craig
95% of waters in the yearbook are traditional type fisheries obviously giving a lot of anglers what they want! dont you think it fair that the society try and provide just one commercial style fishery within striking distance of the city, for the
large number of members that crave one.

regards frim

[Craig Gregory]

Frim
Well this may be true but my worry is that all the money and funding that the society has will be spent into the commercial fishery, then the smaller waters will be left and wont have the funding that they need.

cheers

[normbotty4]

I see as usual that there are some anglers against a commercial style water. let us look at another aspect. over the past ten years while the carp puddles have been building up the society has lost a substantial number of clubs and their members and why ? they have all gone to the commercials leaving the society with a loss in revenue that it is begining to be hard to sustain.so the old addage comes in if you cant beat them then join em. Bruno broughton did a survey for the society a few years ago and could not find any objections to the suggestion. he surveyed both sandwath and knotford. Knotford could be made into the drayton of the north but the only problem is the ea and english nature with there ssi provisions . Knotford was set out for a match water with 45 pegs on one bank but the ssi stopped all improvements . this is an excellent water but the carp men want it all to themselves. they uprouted all the pegs that the gp installed and threw them into the lake. now is this the way anglers should treat one another. there is amp-le room there for alll aspects of angling. As far as the stocking policies go. the carp in commercials do not have any detrimental effect to the other coarse fish in them. They seam to thrive and breed very well and if you go to any commercialyou can see this for yourselves. So before any of you try to kick this into touch think of the majhority of members and the societys purse . normbotty

[frim]

Craig,
Commercial's quickly self fund, and then become profit making ( there aren't many that
dont ) any monies then benefit all fisheries and members.

frim

[robp]

normbotty4 said:

I see as usual that there are some anglers against a commercial style water. let us look at another aspect. over the past ten years while the carp puddles have been building up the society has lost a substantial number of clubs and their members and why ? they have all gone to the commercials leaving the society with a loss in revenue that it is begining to be hard to sustain.

So we're basically saying here that match anglers have left the club to fish other waters and the answer is to spend a fortune creating a water they want (and will quite probably book up every weekend). Does that suit the majority of members? I'll also repeat the previous comment I made with regard to many fishing commercials due to other facilities that are offered, is the association going to use our subs to provide such facilities in the hope the revenue that may be gained will eventually cover this expense?

As far as the stocking policies go. the carp in commercials do not have any detrimental effect to the other coarse fish in them. They seam to thrive and breed very well and if you go to any commercialyou can see this for yourselves. So before any of you try to kick this into touch think of the majhority of members and the societys purse . normbotty

I'm sorry but I think you'll find that a high biomass of carp will have some detrimental effect on indigenous stocks. Surviving in a far from perfect environment does not equate with "thriving" as you put it.

Also, the assertion that this is what the majority want. I would like to clarify how this conclusion has been drawn? Don't seem to have seen anything other than a brief web poll which lead to this thread, which has a 55% - 39% split in favour of a commercial fishery, hardly an overwhelming majority.

Rob

[keepitreal]

Can't believe high density stocking of Carp in mature
Lakes and Ponds, with natural stocks of other species
is even a topic for discussion ?

If people want to visit Soulless Pudles they have more than
enough to choose from in the Area.

[chegers]

Personally, I think it's time to think about the angling scene for the next 10 years. At the end of the day, the association is an organisation, doesn't run from donations or goverment support. It is funded by yearbook purchases and day tickets.

The society has a large amount of water. With that, there are obviously outgoing costs. If we get to the stage where costs are greter than revenue, then there is a problem.

So how is this solved? It's got to be a question of balance. Nobody wants to see Leeds lose any waters, and indeed, if other stretches ever become available, Leeds need to be in a position to tender for them.

A 'commercial' does not necessarily have to be stuffed with carp. Sure, I like going around places like willitofts, lindholme, carpvale, etc etc, but I also love fising for silvers in silver-only matches.

A commercial type fishery, maybe not to the scale of catterick, but maybe a area holding 2 waters would suffice. Like it or not - the organisation needs a money generating venue. You only have to look at how successful D_ick runs Birkwood farm over in Stanley to see what can be achieved. Full every week and no buttie wagon. Granted the fishery is on his land and he is there to take care of it 24 hours a day.

We need to have a compelling offer to ALL kinds of anglers, to generate revenue.

I fished plenty of river matches up to the age of 22, but to be honest, I don't any more. While I'm happy to go roving lightly tackled up, I also enjoy visiting a lake that has good access.

I would bet I will visit at least 20 times, day ticket puddles this year. At a average of £6 a ticket, that's £120. Should'nt Leeds compete for that?

Personally, I would like to see

• A commercial setup around west yorkshire, with at least 2 water, well pegged out with nice fearures, other maybe a more open water. 1 with carp, other with silvers, roach rudd ide bream tench.
  
• Later fishing times for the river lads who want to target the bigger species on the rivers, and let's be right about it, there are some cracking specimens out there
  
• A more marketing focussed attempt to sell yearbooks. Sure it costs money to make money, but we can't rely on self renewal to carry the club forward. It's time to consider posters for tackle shops, maybe a bonus to tackle shop owners for each book they push/sell, possibly even a advertisement in the angling times like Birmingham do. Time to start SELLING.
  
• I honestly think that those of you who think just river fishing and keeping the existing lakes (I exclude catterick from this as this does generate money) you are simply not thinking of the future of the association. You might be able to get to your river pegs now, but can you do it when your 10 years older? Might not be a problem if younger anglers are coming through but they are'nt.
  

I apologise if this upsets anybody.

Carl.

[Dr Barbus]

Good post chegers
The Pro-Commercial Fishery argument is undermined by the poll results 54.2% - For 40% - Against. Hardly overwhelming.
A commercial type fishery in the Tadcaster/York area, such as the change to existing lake, will be pitted against the existing commercials in the area.
A new venue say in West Yorkshire does make some kind of sense as there is less competition there.
If the argument is all about generating revenue the extension of fishing times for us rivre anglers will also do that as there are many who simply do not buy Leeds ASA tickrets due to the current fishing hours. That is an income generater that requires no layout!

[normbotty4]

carl i think you are right in what you say. I did not suggest stuffing the water with carp just the right ammount to help colour it up and bring the fish onto feed. Carp will colour the water from there foraging in the bottom mud. as far as opening rivers for late fishing Drbarbus. the ssociety is tied hand and foot by the riparian holders and they do not want people on their land after dark and the society has to abide by these instruction or loose the fishery . as carl says the society is loosing money and this has to be addressed or nobody will have anywhere to fish. I personally used to fish all river venues but the attacks on cars and the long walks have paid there toll on me and i would prefer to fish where i can get to a peg easily and my car is close bye and safe. normbotty4

[Dr barbus]

The car safety is a seperate issue.

I simply cannot believe that all the riperian owners state this across all the rivers.
Consider the following 5 examples where after dark fishing is allowed
1. YDAA at Skip Bridge, Leeds no.
2. Newton Anglers to 11pm, Leeds at Newton no
3. YDAA at Beninborough, Leeds no
4. BS at Topclife, Leeds no.
5. YDAA at Kexby, Leeds no.

[robp]

I don't have any propblems with the majority of what you say Carl. Though I would say that people are clouding the issue based on the assumption that many posters are against a commercial fishery completely, when this is not the case. The issue is that an established water that has a lot going for it could be considered for such "development".

As for the issue of extending fishing hours, I've said plenty on the other thread concerning this, but I will repeat that it seems odd that all we hear is that riparian landowners will not allow this, when it seems readily accepted by those who lease waters to the York and Hull Associations?

I would also like to add that laying the blame for the decline in membership solely at the gates of the "commercial" fishery is a dangerous game. There are a lot of factors that influence anglers decisions when it comes to deciding where to spend their money. That's a different thread for another day however!

Rob

(ignore paragraph 2 as Dr B posted as I was typing )

[limbo]

WITH REF TO THE SOCIETY HAVING A COMMERCIAL WHY NOT SANDWATH LAKE.
GOOD ACCESS
DISABLED ANGLER FRINDLY
IMPROVE MATCH WEIGHTS (SEEMED VERY POOR ON LOOKIN IN E/POST TUES RESULTS)
BECOME USED BY MORE (DONT SEE MANY PEOPLE FISHING USUALLY)
GOOD FOR JUNIOR MEMBERS (REMEMBER ROUNHAY PARK WITH JUNIOR ANGLERS)
WHY NOT......