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Post by frim on Apr 3, 2008 23:35:12 GMT
Can we have a few opinions on opening a few of our owned river fisheries to night fishing "not a row" Could all members benefit, would we attract more year book sales, could it be self policing, would it affect venues booked for matches, what are the pro's and con's? Give me some feed back and lets see if it's worth taking it a step further. frim PS i'ts not the society asking the question, but if i'ts worth hearing i'll represent the forum and make sure your heard.
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Post by paulwp0 on Apr 4, 2008 9:02:34 GMT
i believe you would DEFINITELY get more members,if you opened not just rivers but still water,its what anglers want,if it was done on a limited first come first served permit,say if you have been a member for at least a year, you can apply for the permit.if you charge £50-75 per year, you will know its serious anglers applying.
if you only have limited permits, and have to book the night and venue you want to fish it should be self policing, you would be able to check who it was if they make a mess,break the rules,lose your permit, easy
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Post by nightline on Apr 4, 2008 10:43:37 GMT
i believe you would DEFINITELY get more members,if you opened not just rivers but still water,its what anglers want,if it was done on a limited first come first served permit,say if you have been a member for at least a year, you can apply for the permit.if you charge £50-75 per year, you will know its serious anglers applying. if you only have limited permits, and have to book the night and venue you want to fish it should be self policing, you would be able to check who it was if they make a mess, easy I have to agree, night fishing members with legitimate permits soon take on the responsibilities of ownership as well as enjoying the privilege of fishing. The nucleus of regulars police the water as if it were their own and any infringement reflects on them so rule breakers are not tolerated. I have seen this happen on at least four different river venues in the past, where members were allowed to night fish. It is really good to see it work and be part of. Serious anglers don't break the rules. However there are risks in allowing night fishing and to alleviate the idiots the obvious rules about respect for privacy, use of proper accesses/parking , noise and torch light discipline, fires, dogs etc should be emblazoned in bold capitals on the permit and defaulters should be kicked out of the club after any serious incident, with no second chance.
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Post by jmallett on Apr 4, 2008 11:46:16 GMT
I think that ultimately this has to happen. So many of us work different shift patterns, or like me your job just takes up all your time during the week leaving only evenings and weekends free, but even then if you have families you are torn between spending time with them and fishing. Opening rivers and stillwaters up to allow night fishing would give people like myself much more freedom to fish when they have opportunities to go. That said, policing this becomes the main problem because there are plenty of anglers who spoil it for others. I think the previous posts about permits and limiting the numbers is the correct way forward on stillwaters. I understand locks and keys are now being sorted out as well, again good deterrents. Knotford is a good example of how the fishery looks after itself with the correct night anglers on board. I fish up there for tench and bream 2 or 3 months of every year and its rare to find any rubbish, most of the carp anglers I know to chat to and they are all good anglers in terms of looking after the place. I am mainly a river fisherman and personally I would not be interested in fishing the rivers all night. For someone like myself after barbel and chub, the best times are just before dawn and dusk into dark, and I am of the opinion that most river anglers like myself would fish for 2 or 3 hours into dark and then pack up. Opening up the rivers at night also opens up other problems with land owners and access - not all the landowners will want anglers wandering in their fields at night, no matter how good they are. Maybe they could be persuaded to allow anglers to fish on for a couple of hours into dark, rather than going for all night? I know that you are just asking for opinions at this stage Frim, I hope something does come of this because I think I speak for a lot of anglers like myself who would love to stay on for a couple of hours when those barbel have just started to feed...... ;D Julian
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Post by davetipping on Apr 4, 2008 17:26:58 GMT
I'm in favour too.
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Post by kevrich on Apr 4, 2008 17:58:18 GMT
I think that the rules on the rivers should be the same for all members.
Like Julian said, the specialist river angler likes to fish a few hours into darkness, if i was kicked off a fishery by a fellow member with a Night permit i would be non too pleased and would be more likely to throw my book on the fire than continue my membership.
Extended hours is the way to go and i believe this would increase membership more than getting new members joining, just for the night fishing on one venue.
Fishing should be allowed until say 11:00pm on all venues owned by the society and those where owners are willing to allow it.
This would not effect the Match calendar, or the daytime pleasure angler which most seem to forget!
Kev
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az
Junior Member
Posts: 69
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Post by az on Apr 4, 2008 18:30:24 GMT
i think its a great idea, a couple of hours after dusk is the norm for my approach to the river, in all honesty its much more predictable for a fish at dusk onwards, it also suits winter fishing better aswell, especially for members like myself with limited time wanting to make the most out of the correct/best hours available. i do think theres certain stretches that should remain day only though as i would want all fellow anglers to be safe as i know first hand to how far we will go in catching that chosen fish. I dont think it would make membership numbers rocket though by lifting the rule. I also dont think it will create a circus of bite alarmed crazed carbellers that woke up pro's.
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jason
New Member
Posts: 38
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Post by jason on Apr 4, 2008 19:35:52 GMT
The idea of extended fishing times appeals to me more than 24 hour fishing. If I’m being truthful most of the river sections I’ve fished with 24hr access in Yorkshire and on the Trent, have suffered from the same problems identified by Nightline.
I can see where Nightline and Paulwp0 are coming from with limited night permits and self policing. But I think a move in this direction would cause even more divide in the association.
So my vote would be towards extended fishing times rather than 24hr Access.
Jason
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Post by nightline on Apr 7, 2008 8:47:50 GMT
If we are going to lobby the club to change the rules re night fishing lets get it right to begin with, by which I mean to suit all interested parties. I know that many river anglers only fish a couple of hours into dark. However many others anglers do all night sessions for a variety of reasons. Some anglers fish all night to maximise their one fishing day a week, three of the Yorkshire river venues I fish only allow fishing after dark on the basis that you stay on the bank all night until 6:30am if your fishing after dark in summer, and you are away before midnight in winter. There is one venue on the Ouse where I have to stay until 7;30 am in summer to avoid disturbance, even though I stop fishing at dawn 3:45am because I am knackered. I am happy to do this as it is the landowners requirement and my car is parked in his farm yard. To restrict the hours to what amounts to late evening is pointless.
These farmers/landowners don't want to have the worry of seeing strange cars/headlights wandering about their land in the middle of the night, this is a particular worry for keepers at certain times of year. The idea that we might set the latest time at 11pm is ludicrous it isn't dusk until 10:45pm in midsummer!
We also need to realise that having an open access to fishing after dark without permits is not why the idea was proposed. The club needs revenue and this would be an excellent way to bring funds into the club whilst at the same time controlling a potential problem that is why it must be done through permits .
Finally I have to say that whilst there are problems on some venues say on the Trent, which promotes a different kind of long stay fishing any way, most Yorkshire rivers venues that allow night fishing are problem free, in fact most of the places I have fished have been angler free. There are occasional exceptions of course.
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Post by kevrich on Apr 7, 2008 21:35:58 GMT
If we are going to lobby the club to change the rules re night fishing lets get it right to begin with, by which I mean to suit all interested parties. I know that many river anglers only fish a couple of hours into dark. However many others anglers do all night sessions for a variety of reasons. Some anglers fish all night to maximise their one fishing day a week, three of the Yorkshire river venues I fish only allow fishing after dark on the basis that you stay on the bank all night until 6:30am if your fishing after dark in summer, and you are away before midnight in winter. There is one venue on the Ouse where I have to stay until 7;30 am in summer to avoid disturbance, even though I stop fishing at dawn 3:45am because I am knackered. I am happy to do this as it is the landowners requirement and my car is parked in his farm yard. To restrict the hours to what amounts to late evening is pointless. These farmers/landowners don't want to have the worry of seeing strange cars/headlights wandering about their land in the middle of the night, this is a particular worry for keepers at certain times of year. The idea that we might set the latest time at 11pm is ludicrous it isn't dusk until 10:45pm in midsummer! We also need to realise that having an open access to fishing after dark without permits is not why the idea was proposed. The club needs revenue and this would be an excellent way to bring funds into the club whilst at the same time controlling a potential problem that is why it must be done through permits . Finally I have to say that whilst there are problems on some venues say on the Trent, which promotes a different kind of long stay fishing any way, most Yorkshire rivers venues that allow night fishing are problem free, in fact most of the places I have fished have been angler free. There are occasional exceptions of course. I believe Frim wanted to canvas points of view, that's what i have done, the majority of Anglers don't give a toss about club revenue, they just want value for money. Good value sells more books! Quite frankly your statement that extended hours is ludicrous is way over the top, so what if you can't fish after dark for the first few weeks of the season, the fish will be getting enough of an hammering at that time of year anyway, and at the moment we can't fish after dark at any time, unless you break the rules!!!! I believe night permits for river sections is a recipe for aggro, with angler against angler, it works ok on stillwaters, because they are in the main long stay anglers. Night angler arrives at the river just before dark, evicts day angler from best swim on the stretch (after a lengthy argument about what is exactly the time lesser members are allowed to fish until) and then moves into pre baited vacated swim, believe me it will happen, i know some of the anglers that would get a permit and it is the extent of their skillKev
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Post by nightline on Apr 8, 2008 11:01:39 GMT
What you believe is incorrect Kev. I know what Steve's intention was, he is trying his best to think of ways to bring revenue into the club and you refer to my being over the top when saying that extended hours fishing is ludicrous but you are incorrect again. I did not say that, what I said was that limiting night fishing to a cut of point of 11:00 Pm was ludicrous as it is still daylight until 10:45 Pm in late June.
Your notion that having night permits on rivers is a recipe for aggro doesn't stand up, I have years of experience to vouch for that fact. To compare similar club and venues, York have always permitted night fishing on some of their river venues via permits and I have never seen another angler on the venues I have fished using these permits except when I have fished with pals. Of course there are always exceptions but I believe these do not equate to any more aggro than when fishing in daylight.
Your point about arguments on the bank doesn't stand up either if an angler without a night permit is still there after dark he is breaking the rules. I might be disappointed to find someone in a swim I fancied but would always have plenty of alternatives in mind. Asking another angler to move in these circumstances is beyond my understanding I would never want to fish where others have been in fact I would not want him to know I was there and all the angling pals I know who fish rivers before after dark would feel the same.
Finally if you read my earlier posts on this subject you will see that I was and still am generally against this idea but wanted to support Frim as he was trying to do something positive.
Against the idea because as we can see in posts from half a dozen contributors we can not reach agreement, and on this matter I believe there must be a consensus before we take it up.
Most people are not generally knowledgeable about the subject but still think they have points to make which was what was requested but gets us no where.
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Post by paulwp0 on Apr 8, 2008 16:14:08 GMT
if night fishing was only allowed on rivers via a permit,i dont think there would be a mass waiting list because of 1 reason NO CARP, take away the fair weather anglers,bivvy boys,a decent % of match anglers and young kids, how many of the 2000+ members are interested ,have the time,or the patience.. not that many i bet.
i`ve fished from otley down to tadcaster on the wharfe in a day in the summer and only seen half a dozen anglers all day, its a dying art now is wetting a line in a river,it would be nice to have the chance for real anglers to do some real fishing when the roach,bream , barbel are starting to feed, i.e when its DARK.
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robp
New Member
Posts: 31
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Post by robp on Apr 8, 2008 16:38:45 GMT
Duncan, the suggestion of allowing fishing until 11pm (with permission from landowners) is hardly "ludicrous" as you put it. Nothing more than a viable suggestion which allows the majority to have the opportunity to fish at most times of the year, especially for a few hours after work in the shorter months, without breaking club rules. It also means that you don't have people "wandering round" at all hours upsetting landowners.
As for York's permit system, let's be straight about it, on waters where nights are allowed you ring the waters secretary and inform them you will be fishing and no permit is issued. No charge is made for the opportunity to night fish either. Simple, fair to all and it works.
" Most people are not generally knowledgeable about the subject but still think they have points to make which was what was requested but gets us no where." I honestly hope that sentence doesn't read as intended, as it does smack of arrogance?
Personally I don't like the idea of paying extra to fish somewhere I've already paid to fish, just because circumstance and personal preference mean I often fish into dark and the society needs to raise a few quid. I'm not likely to be fishing any longer than the daylight angler, yet would be expected to pay again? Perhaps the society could look at issuing permits for anyone who fishes past halfway on a venue as they are potentially occupying more than one swim (now that is ludicrous)!
Is the average member going to be prepared to stump up £40 for each stretch they wish to fish after dark? Not too bad if you only intend to fish one venue, but pretty restrictive if you like to fish a number of venues. If you are looking at a single, sensible fee for a number of venues it would be more attractive to members.
I can also see Kev's point regarding the potential for bother. I'm sure nearly every member has sat at the river at dusk with their tip knocking after a fruitless day and stretched the concept of dusk a little past what the rules say is allowed. There are plenty out there who would be on that anglers back in a flash if they wanted that swim, I've seen it happen.
Rob
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az
Junior Member
Posts: 69
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Post by az on Apr 8, 2008 18:48:11 GMT
nightline youd probably argue black is white, frim wanted views and it seems all who have given them seem to be on the same lines of a few hours after dusk for free whats up with that, theres not a true river angler thats got leeds book that dunt fish on when they feel its right to do so. In all honesty do you think you would break the farmers heart by walking up his field with all your tackle.... i think not.
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allen
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by allen on Apr 9, 2008 18:54:38 GMT
i know this is nothing to do with rivers, but why does the club charge a seperate price for each stillwater you wish to nightfish and not have a fixed price for all, surely this is unfaif to those who wish to travel to different waters for a weekends fishing where they might only go to each carplake once a year
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