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Post by knowbody on Mar 7, 2011 0:45:19 GMT
I definitely think a perimeter/security fence is needed. It doesn't have to look too intrusive, just similiar to what Bradford No. 1 have done, then if we put some trees/hawthorne bushes inside the perimeter it will help it look more natural. Also I think the lane leading to the water works should be re-fenced and maybe some conifers planted along its length, again just for security but it will also make it look prettier. We, as members, have the oppotunity to make Knotford even more special than it is now. We just all need to pull together and don't do anything silly... In light of events down stream I think a good secure fence is needed at Knotford. Phil, is this to keep otters out or carp in? Many a tall tale about unstopable barble/carp  on the wharfe, many a tall tale about unstopable otters too. ;D Fact is otters have been on the wharfe since 1990 at least (seen them then) Carp have been on there from? .............Go figure, they had no red muscle too But they are still there. |
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Post by knowbody on Mar 7, 2011 1:01:15 GMT
Dan, The weed is why this water is so good, its full of food, shelter from preditors from above, and most importantly its the start of the whole ecosystem that is Knotford, every time you try to kill it of you just make the place sick. You disrupt and kill the very thing that has made the pit so aluring to you. Can you not see that it's full of big carp, tench, bream, etc because it is so rich? This starts from the bottom, good water and nutrient makes good conditions for good weed growth. Good weed growth makes good conditions for invert's, mollascs, etc. Good food and good water makes good fish, it is the way it is. Now any angler that would like to destroy that just so he can catch a fish on his/her favorite method is a deluded self centered hole in a pig. I would like to grow gold without watering it, it's not going to happen though is it? Why kill the place for the sake of a few MEMBERS that think more about rigs than the fish they are "supposed" to catch? Like I said I thought we liked fish? Not rigs............. What came first the fish or the rig? I used to fish the place but no longer bother. IF YOU WANNA STAB FISH EASY GO TO A WATER THATS FULL OF THEM AND EASY TO CATCH! And stop trying to sanitise real water into what you want it to be. Hell, there is enough dirty ponds in this contry already, WHY do you want more? Rant over, turn it any colour you like. Hopefully the river will sort it in the long run  Mr Knowbody, I think Dan is just trying to see it from the clubs point of view. We know there are anglers (not just carpers) that would like to fish Knotford but don't or can't because of the weed. Would it really harm the lake so much just to see if the three treatments help with the problem? I understand that everybody has there best intentions at heart Phil. But with the best of intentions, 2 years like a toilet makes 2 years recovery to stop being a toilet. This is one big toilet to be messing about with, A water that without being made a toilet has done 30lb carp and pike, and near double figure tench and bream. Yet this is not good enough? You don't know how good you have got it  Eat to get slimmer, make it blue, I don't have anymore argument left. 2013 you will be wadeing in snot. I tryed. |
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Post by knowbody on Mar 7, 2011 1:20:03 GMT
a fence is surely better than fishing a lake with no fish  It would appear the lake has no fish before the fence. (because of the weed) Even the best fence won't keep out the signal crayfish. You will be planting weed when they turn up. Otters like to eat them too. So I guess the fence may come down then? At least the weed gives the fish a chance, a place to spawn and a place to hide. (I know I'm a bummer and our date is off. It's just the way of the world I'm affraid) |
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Post by phil on Mar 7, 2011 20:20:34 GMT
Who would want to go fishing on waters surrounded by 'protective' fences? Not me! Maybe we should install gun turrets at either ends of the lake. Geoff, if a fence is put up around the land boundary of Knotford I'm sure there isn't many places that you would be able to see it. Like Dan said, with a bit of planting it would soon vanish behind a few bushes and shrubs.. Mr Knowbody, I think, a good secure fence at Knotford, would keep out all kinds of "nocturnal creatures" and "trespassers" alike that don't have keys for the new swanky gates!! As for the weed, if the fish depend on the weed so much why do they do so well in france where the lakes have very little if any weed? And why is it if you put a bucket full of bait on a small clear area, that area becomes ten times bigger where the fish have ripped up the weed in search of more of this "unnatural" food?? |
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Post by dan on Mar 8, 2011 16:34:42 GMT
Surely a secure perimiter is a good thing?, not only will it keep out unwanted people against trespassing on land which Leeds own it will also be used to protect the fish we all love to catch.
Times are getting worse with otters and I believe it will only continue to get worse in years to come.
Preventention is better than cure. IMO
The fence doesn't have to be intrusive, in fact far from it. As I said, once hidden amongst shrubbery it probably won't appear too visible.
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Post by dan on Mar 8, 2011 16:39:56 GMT
I appreciate your concerns about the lack of weed, Knowbody. I for one am not suggesting remove the weed. However, I will reitterate, I am only one member of the club.
I think this is a case you're d**ned if you do and d**ned if you don't...
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timr
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Post by timr on Mar 8, 2011 23:56:51 GMT
Dan, The weed is why this water is so good, its full of food, shelter from preditors from above, and most importantly its the start of the whole ecosystem that is Knotford, every time you try to kill it of you just make the place sick. You disrupt and kill the very thing that has made the pit so aluring to you. Can you not see that it's full of big carp, tench, bream, etc because it is so rich? This starts from the bottom, good water and nutrient makes good conditions for good weed growth. Good weed growth makes good conditions for invert's, mollascs, etc. Good food and good water makes good fish, it is the way it is. Now any angler that would like to destroy that just so he can catch a fish on his/her favorite method is a deluded self centered hole in a pig. I would like to grow gold without watering it, it's not going to happen though is it? Why kill the place for the sake of a few MEMBERS that think more about rigs than the fish they are "supposed" to catch? Like I said I thought we liked fish? Not rigs............. What came first the fish or the rig? I used to fish the place but no longer bother. IF YOU WANNA STAB FISH EASY GO TO A WATER THATS FULL OF THEM AND EASY TO CATCH! And stop trying to sanitise real water into what you want it to be. Hell, there is enough dirty ponds in this contry already, WHY do you want more? Rant over, turn it any colour you like. Hopefully the river will sort it in the long run Absolutely spot on 'knowbody', there are enough sterile uninteresting waters in this area already and when you look at the facts, the history of other similarly rich venues to knotsford that have been messed about with in similar ways, there's only likely to be one outcome. Its true the carp fishing may not suffer straight away, though I have no doubt that eventually they will loose weight quite drastically. Personally I dont give a fig for the carp anyway. Big tench on the other hand are a rare comodity in this area and worth much more than the carp in monetary terms. Carry out this action and the end result will be as follows.... 1. Regular algal blooms leaving the venue permanently coloured. 2. An explosion of small fish including bream in numbers that simply cannot be controlled. 3. Increased colour caused by the activity of the 'population explosion' 4. Further increases in the population of small fish due do the low predation as a consequence of the suspended solids. 5. Diminished natural food supplies due the the population increase. 6. The end of one of the few genuine 'specimen' waters in the area. 7. The creation of yet another easy runs or commercial type water. 8. Lots of dissolusioned big fish anglers relinquish their leeds book. I cannot stress stongly enough that I feel that this type of weed treatment is irresponsible. |
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Post by knowbody on Mar 9, 2011 0:03:03 GMT
Who would want to go fishing on waters surrounded by 'protective' fences? Not me! Maybe we should install gun turrets at either ends of the lake. Geoff, if a fence is put up around the land boundary of Knotford I'm sure there isn't many places that you would be able to see it. Like Dan said, with a bit of planting it would soon vanish behind a few bushes and shrubs.. Mr Knowbody, I think, a good secure fence at Knotford, would keep out all kinds of "nocturnal creatures" and "trespassers" alike that don't have keys for the new swanky gates!! As for the weed, if the fish depend on the weed so much why do they do so well in france where the lakes have very little if any weed? And why is it if you put a bucket full of bait on a small clear area, that area becomes ten times bigger where the fish have ripped up the weed in search of more of this "unnatural" food?? Ok, last try. In france you have a much longer period of warm water growth from the carp, they spawn better grow faster and in some part controle there own numbers because they are happy to turn round and eat there own eggs and fry. They do this because of water temp. They also naturally displace the native spieces and set about the weedbeds earlyer in the year, and keep at it much later into the year too. They are realy very adaptable and tolarent to abuse from the enviroment and anglers. They are the only things left to compeat in the Ebro, well zander at a push too. Carp realy are indistructable. Thats why they breed em, stock em, and stupidly love em. On mass. But we are on the edge of there range, so we love em more. If they spawned like roach they would be the only freshwater fish to catch, exept for skinny pike and catfish. Thank god they struggle to reproduce! We are not in france, we are in yourkshire. The bucket of grub aproach would and does work here too, but you need more carp than knotford has at present to achieve your clear areas. I did say in a post long ago that the best thing would be to stock more sizeable carp but this was not want'ed by the lad's fishing the place as i recall. So I guess some of the guys fishing there can deal with the weed. They were thinking small numbers and more growth, lets av a 40! It's all about balence, we as anglers don't have a lot of it. Well I bagged up big time today, hence my good mood  (not at knotford and not with carp  ) |
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Post by knowbody on Mar 9, 2011 0:22:13 GMT
I appreciate your concerns about the lack of weed, Knowbody. I for one am not suggesting remove the weed. However, I will reitterate, I am only one member of the club. I think this is a case you're d**ned if you do and d**ned if you don't... Dan, Would you use your bedroom as a toilet? Then complain of the smell after a month? It's not a carp puddle/easy runs water, and it never will be. Waste your money. Hell get some triploids in there while your about it.  It;s not about members it's about what the water is. Thats why some of the members joined. Not everyone expects it on a plate Timr, Thankyou, it was getting lonely out here |
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Post by dan on Mar 9, 2011 11:18:08 GMT
Knowbody, with respect,I wish you would read my posts correctly.
Maybe I should spell it out for you I DO NOT WANT THE WEED TO BE REMoVED OR THINNED OUT!
You seem to keep ignoring this point and harping on making out that I am instigating the removal of weed, which I am not.
All I am saying is that other members want to fish it.
I certainly do not want it on a plate, far from it. I enjoy the place as it is and wish for it to stay that way.
Maybe with others voicing their concerns like Timr has done the minority of anglers will take notice to potential harm that they will inflict by suggesting to remove the weed.
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Post by dan on Mar 9, 2011 11:19:48 GMT
Timr, it's good to hear another opinion not from a carp angler in respect of the weed, thanks,
Maybe this will make people realise the potential long term harm that could be inflicted
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Post by rickyg on Mar 9, 2011 15:33:12 GMT
all this talk about knotford been a "balanced fishery "is confusing. Surely it was a balanced fishery 12-15 years ago, the carp would go to nearly 20 then, the tench were still big and virtually every peg was fishable. no weed problem.You also had a realistic chance of a 2lb roach or perch. My freind still fishes the place and has not caught a roach in 5 years.The place is way out of balance
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timr
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Post by timr on Mar 9, 2011 23:14:22 GMT
rickyg with respect, and I do not mean to be rude but from your postings I suspect I could write what you know about fishery management on a postage stamp.
Let us put it this way, constantly messing about with a venue certainly isn't going to result in a balanced fishery is it?
Look at all the key gravel workings up and down the country and you will find very few if any that support anything more than very modest populations of roach. The Thames Lea and Colne valleys, The pits in the Oxford, cambridgeshire and Hampshire areas (the best big fish venues in the country) all have certain things in common. Dense weed, clear water, Fairly low populations of Big Tench, Carp and Bream and in one or two cases huge roach or rudd.
I can't think of a single venue (excluding the many tiny pits) amongst these that support good numbers of silver fish, they are far more likely to have a very low population of very big roach and the reason for this is because THEY HAVEN'T BEEN MESSED ABOUT WITH! Without exception, dense weed is present and the water is exceptionally clear. The growth of those fish that survive the fry stage (including the roach) is rapid because they have plenty to eat.
Ask yourself this RickyG: Would removing the very thing that helps the fish grow big rapidly be more or less likely to result in the return of the quality roach you speak of?
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Post by endpegger on Mar 10, 2011 8:55:43 GMT
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timr
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Post by timr on Mar 10, 2011 12:31:34 GMT
With respect 'Endpegger' almost all of the lakes in france have a prolific, self sustaining source of carp food in the form of crayfish.
Also, Just a 1 degree average increase in temperature can make a big, big difference to the annual total feeding period of cyprininds.
If you need evidence of this the take note of the fact that the tench in the southern part of britain grow to 16lbs plus yet those in scotland struggle to make half this weight. The carp in the lower part of this country exceede 40lbs on a fairly regular extent, lots of southern carpers have caught in excess of 10 different forties yet in the north a fish of this size really is exceptional (the reason why one or two have been 'acquired' by northern fisheries rather than resorting to growing their own).
Please note: The weed on knotsford is nothing compared to the venues in the south of england that 'produce' these fish. There isn't a weed problem, the problem is that some anglers are so dumb they cannot see that casting over dense weed is not a clever thing to do because you then have the problem of retrieving a hooked fish through it!
Another 'fact' posted on here that I dissagree with strongly is that there are not enough fish in knotsford for regular baiting to result in the creation of clear spots. Codswollop, the fish only play a minor part in this process, it is the diving birds that remove the bulk of the weed. of course you have to deposit the bait in spots where the birds can find it.
I've created totally clear spots on lakes much weedier and less heavily populated than knotsford by introducing wheat on a daily basis and it has taken less than a fortnight.
Stocking more big carp is not the answer either because you are then effectively reducing the food supply by default and the result is likely to inhibit growth in much the same way as weed removal would!
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on the wharfe, many a tall tale about unstopable otters too. ;D
Mr Knowbody, I think Dan is just trying to see it from the clubs point of view. We know there are anglers (not just carpers) that would like to fish Knotford but don't or can't because of the weed. Would it really harm the lake so much just to see if the three treatments help with the problem?
(not at knotford and not with carp 
It;s not about members it's about what the water is. Thats why some of the members joined. Not everyone expects it on a plate