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Post by gusgreaves on Nov 27, 2010 22:44:26 GMT
Jersyman you have touched on something that has puzzled the top boffins for years and something I tried over many years to get an answer to, Why do fish not get past the two year stage? There have been times on the Ouse in the Dunsforth area and other rivers when they have been full of second year class chub but the following year they have all but gone. It is certainly not angling pressure, pollution or predation however, now and again you will get a long dry summer and survival rates are better. Could it be that there is just not enough natural food to sustain the increased population. In days gone by when farmers fertilized their fields with manure the run off created an alge bloom and lots of natural food but the problem may still have occurred then it just seems that no one has the answer. Regards Gus
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Post by jerseyman on Nov 28, 2010 16:44:49 GMT
We suffer from it on a regular basis, years of "its the cormorants" mantra. have sort of blinded me to it. Ok, you have a good water, the death arrive and its ruined ,no argument, but when you have not had the BD on for a while, and as our waters are easily checked on a daily basis, i can personally see that, there as to be a reason why 2-3 yrs on the bounce you have bit roach, then the following season, you are catching 3-6oz fish,but no small ones, does this mean the little ones have grown this yr ? and if so why now, is it an access to food supplies that have been missing, cos when you do get them they are proper chunky fish. And if that theory is somewhere near, whats caused the sudden food increase? All i can say .as an observation ,is that any of our waters over here ,that are gin clear, during april and may ,have a poor fry recruitment that yr, but have decent fishing in sept/oct/nov. so is it food related, ie not as many mouths to feed. [as an additional note, the nitrate run off from the fields these days, causes ALL our waters to go pea green in the summer, but doesn't always result in an abundance of lower animal life to take advantage, which would obviously offer a sudden increase in food to the fish. ] If as Gus says better minds than mine are puzzled, i'll keep on trying things, but these days it won't be just put some more fish in. EDIT, After re reading Gus's post on the chub, it could be a simple as the food requirement, lot of mouths to feed, they might starve, or possibly just move off up or down stream to find the food. cant do that in a still water though.
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frank
Junior Member
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Post by frank on Nov 28, 2010 17:18:23 GMT
Hi All, Some activity at last; I have been angling since the 70's & I remember when Sandwath was a brilliant venue. I had a 5 year break from fishing & came back 2 seasons ago with all the memories of what the rivers & Sandwath USED to offer the angler ... Wow did I get a surprise. Some thing needs to be done now not in a few years time. I for one cannot afford that luxury. Yes you have put vans full of fish into Sandwath But my theory is More vans full have gone out. Hopefully the Gates will be a deterrent to the undesirables.
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Post by jerseyman on Nov 28, 2010 17:39:15 GMT
sorry Frank, your not the first to raise the stealing issue, however while that is probable for your good size fish, where are the intermeadiate yr classes. Even if they were seine netting it, there would be still a mix left[ unless they went to the trouble of grading the catch] and a lot of evidence of its use. The only way you can be size specific, is to shoot a gill net through the lake, but then that has to be left for a number of hours to fish effectively,and would still leave evidence around, vegetation damaged, scales on the bank .
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frank
Junior Member
Posts: 55
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Post by frank on Nov 28, 2010 18:04:30 GMT
Hi Jerseyman, Good point, Just another thought, who is to say they ( the alleged ) thieves have not caused the inbalance over the years. Sorry i am rambling again.
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Post by jerseyman on Nov 28, 2010 18:29:05 GMT
All the posts on this thread, however opinionated they may seem, are the only way an reasonable course of action can be drawn up. who knows it might drag on for a few months, but conversely different members posting similar observations, could lead to quicker response. not easy though. I have been reluctant to comment on Mr K's advice, and the responses to it, as he's big and old enough to tell you all to **** *** himself, but he's not daft ,and its well intentioned.And ,from my point of view, any problems you are facing now, i may encounter next year, or vise versa, and as some one who is a bit interested in all that angling is, i feel its only right to offer observations, or advice, where things have worked . Graham
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Post by frim on Nov 28, 2010 21:23:24 GMT
Mr k, It's been said before, are you posting on, or reading the same thread as the rest of us? Where in this thread have I suggested wanting to make a commercial or that we have decided to alter anything at Sandwath? Please feel free to answer anything that I write on here, but don't answer to what you thought you read! The whole idea of the two threads and surveys were to show members that we are preparing to get a portfolio of fish stocks, health and general welfare of our owned lakes and land, it's never been done before and shows we want to go forward and have kept no secrets. The fact that we asked for opinions and some don't agree with you is just tough titty, we need differences of opinion to reach any kind of compromise. We don't want a forum or society full of " Yes Men" my opinion carries only the same weight as your's or gcb or bizz, I'm not into back slapping but will always give credit when it's due, points made over this forum are raised at relevant committee meetings and are all taken on board. You know as well as anyone my involvement at KP, but know I spend plenty of time on rivers and lakes in other places, let me make it clear so you can't get it wrong , Leeds need a Sandwath type lake, but not what Sandwath has been turned into (my opinion) I WOULD FIGHT TO STOP SANDWATH BECOMING A COMMERCIAL To finish "google earth" our area! there are dozens of mature ponds and lakes some never touched by man " i know plenty of them and very few have viable fish stocks" even for anglers with low expectations. Why hasn't nature stepped in and made those the perfect balanced fishery if all you have to do is leave them alone? Steve
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Post by knowbody on Nov 28, 2010 23:36:23 GMT
Mr k, It's been said before, are you posting on, or reading the same thread as the rest of us? Where in this thread have I suggested wanting to make a commercial or that we have decided to alter anything at Sandwath? Please feel free to answer anything that I write on here, but don't answer to what you thought you read! The whole idea of the two threads and surveys were to show members that we are preparing to get a portfolio of fish stocks, health and general welfare of our owned lakes and land, it's never been done before and shows we want to go forward and have kept no secrets. The fact that we asked for opinions and some don't agree with you is just tough titty, we need differences of opinion to reach any kind of compromise. We don't want a forum or society full of " Yes Men" my opinion carries only the same weight as your's or gcb or bizz, I'm not into back slapping but will always give credit when it's due, points made over this forum are raised at relevant committee meetings and are all taken on board. You know as well as anyone my involvement at KP, but know I spend plenty of time on rivers and lakes in other places, let me make it clear so you can't get it wrong , Leeds need a Sandwath type lake, but not what Sandwath has been turned into (my opinion) I WOULD FIGHT TO STOP SANDWATH BECOMING A COMMERCIALTo finish "google earth" our area! there are dozens of mature ponds and lakes some never touched by man " i know plenty of them and very few have viable fish stocks" even for anglers with low expectations. Why hasn't nature stepped in and made those the perfect balanced fishery if all you have to do is leave them alone? Steve Frim, I think I have been reading the sandwath servay thread? The general concencass seems to be that pike are spoiling a small lake that you own? The fact that your previous fellow club members stocking of said lake in the past before you took over has made the lake like this seem's to be a bone of contention? Some club members would like it to be made into a commersial because that is all any magority member would like? If you are not in the magority? you sit on a couch with no children, and wonder why you can'ot see were fishing is going and should "deal with it".......As a good water should be balenced like a trout water Some of your members with an intrest in this water are a little upset by this thread? I don't mind if you wish to kill the smaller pike. but I am living in the past, aparently? You are waiting for the results of the netting. You will act upon there verdict? Am I up to speed? What I don't know is.......... Your envolvement with KP? What this has to do with Sandwath I am at a loss to fathom, please enlighten me? Why you seem to think I am your enemy? I'm on your side. I don't want to see you spoil a water (This place has a track record of lumps of all species) and waste a load of money that you could use for more productive things, you did ask for oppinions! Why you think I should have any idea about how ponds near sandwath are doing? It's not like you stocked any of them and told me about it? or them? Why young anglers for some reason are not allowed to fish for pike? In my experiance they find a three pound jack very exiting on a lure, big fish to them and you get to play with toys. (lures) Mindblowing stuff to small people Steve, I may make the odd joke at times, but I am in no way hear to mock or criticise your actions. I am sorry if you feel that way, I'll happily stop posting if I'm upsetting the applecart. Why you and others see me as a threat I have no idea, other than you all want every water on the book to be a match water? I AGGREE THERE ARE TOO MANY SMALL PIKE FOR FEK SAKE!!! Has been a good thread though has'nt it?
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tinca
New Member
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Post by tinca on Nov 29, 2010 11:08:40 GMT
Posted by:Mr Knowbody Frim, can you tell me the point of this forum? You asked for opinions on the nettings, but it would seem you know what your going to do anyway. I don't get why you bother unless the next big comersial is in the offing? are you looking for a pat on the back before the work is done, a bit of reasurance that every member is wanting what biz and end want? Why not just have a match forum to save us all from wasteing £40 if we like fishing for fishings sake?
Sorry Frim, but from were I'm sitting this looks like poland in 1939.
Posted by:Mr Knowbody Steve, I may make the odd joke at times, but I am in no way hear to mock or criticise your actions
Really ? Then maybe stick to putting a reasoned argument together backed with a few facts / opinions, rather than venturing into obviously deliberate wind-ups.
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Post by knowbody on Nov 29, 2010 21:52:58 GMT
Posted by:Mr Knowbody Frim, can you tell me the point of this forum? You asked for opinions on the nettings, but it would seem you know what your going to do anyway. I don't get why you bother unless the next big comersial is in the offing? are you looking for a pat on the back before the work is done, a bit of reasurance that every member is wanting what biz and end want? Why not just have a match forum to save us all from wasteing £40 if we like fishing for fishings sake?
Sorry Frim, but from were I'm sitting this looks like poland in 1939.Posted by:Mr Knowbody Steve, I may make the odd joke at times, but I am in no way hear to mock or criticise your actionsReally ? Then maybe stick to putting a reasoned argument together backed with a few facts / opinions, rather than venturing into obviously deliberate wind-ups. A good point tinca, I hope this also aplies to Bizz and Endpegger? I seem to be the one causing problems yet I don't recal being abusive just because I don't aggree with a post. Sorry for any offence. I've done my best with reasoned arguments, but it would seem from were I'm sitting nothing I say could possably be right. I at least try to explain why I think what I think. Is that too far off the mark Tinca? Or am I missing something? Please tell me or I will not know.
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tinca
New Member
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Post by tinca on Nov 29, 2010 22:42:25 GMT
"I seem to be the one causing problems yet I don't recal being abusive" Being abusive is not what I said, is it Mr knowbody. Please re-read my post.
"I hope this also aplies to Bizz and Endpegger No.Why would it ? The forum only has real value if it encourages debate, suggestions and even some arguments.
"Please tell me or I will not know. Please re-read your posts.
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Post by knowbody on Nov 29, 2010 22:58:12 GMT
I think my arguments are reasoned Tinca. They have opinions and seem to get debate going.
Your gonna have to spell it out for me.........
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Post by leondodd on Nov 29, 2010 23:04:13 GMT
there is getting far too much bickering at other posters on this thread, and that will not solve anything. let's stick to trying to come up with some answers or at least ideas and try supporting frim and the club. after all we all want at least a similar thing in the end, a better fishing lake, while we may not all agree on what constitutes a better fishing lake what is good for the lake has got to be beneficial to us all? now i am no expert but of all the views on this thread, draining the lake and starting again seems like it would take too long and cost too much, and you might end up in the same situation in 20 years, doing nothing and letting nature take its course is cheap, but may do nothing so it seems that removing some of the smaller pike may be the only thing to do??? i certainly don't want to see a large stocking of pastie carp and stocking silvers has not helped in the past so what else?
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tinca
New Member
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Post by tinca on Nov 29, 2010 23:09:54 GMT
I already did mate.
"maybe stick to putting a reasoned argument together backed with a few facts / opinions, rather than venturing into obviously deliberate wind-ups."
Maybe re-read my first post, again.......
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Post by knowbody on Nov 29, 2010 23:16:12 GMT
I already did mate. "maybe stick to putting a reasoned argument together backed with a few facts / opinions, rather than venturing into obviously deliberate wind-ups." Maybe re-read my first post, again....... Like I said, I hope this is refering to all posters on the forum.
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